SYMPOSIA

• What are the issues differentiating EDR requirements for light and heavy duty vehicles?

  • Kreeb - The technology is not quite the same. Also, the means for defining the start of a crash is different for light vehicles vs. heavy vehicles. Developing one standard may compromise the ability to get good data from both.

• Please discuss the reliability, accuracy, and validity of data stored.

  • McElroy - The data stored is just as reliable as the reliability of the vehicle and its systems. Data outside of operational parameters will result in codes being set.
  • Chidester - There are bugs in some of the recorded data. Some of the bugs are easier to explain than others; it may be necessary to go to the manufacturer for help. There has been no statistical analysis performed for accuracy on the 1100 NHTSA has read out. The paper Chip co-authored for the Enhanced Safety of Vehicles Conference is designed to address some of these issues. EDRs can only aid in a reconstruction.
  • Martinez - Current data is not perfect and is derived from mechanical evidence using computer program. This was indicated in the case of a GM crash in which the vehicle struck and under rode a large truck. The measured Delta V was more than twice that using the SMASH computer program. Computer program output is based on full frontal crashes into solid barrier. Issues also included whether the driver was belted. Subsequently, it was found that the vehicle was a rental car and had a previous event recorded.

• For the SAE Vehicle Event Data Interface (VEDI) Committee, what are the data elements being considered, how were they chosen, and what are the details of the data elements and data collection?

  • Kreeb - The VEDI Committee is looking at all of the information currently being collected by OEM EDRs plus additional data elements that could be recorded in the near future. The committee limited themselves in scope to those items that are readily available to be recorded (at least in the near term). There are no accuracy requirements per se (in terms of defining the data sources), but there are place holders for sampling requirements, etc. Additional requirements can be added once the initial set has been defined.
  • Marsh - The VEDI Committee is focused on documenting the largest common denominator. The committee has a limited scope to get something accomplished quickly; additional items can be looked at later.

• Why hasn't NHTSA required EDRs on light or heavy vehicles?

  • Chidester - It will never be as in aviation where very expensive recorders are required. The decision at NHTSA on the petition to require EDRs will be made at a higher level.
  • Kreeb - The current status makes sense because industry is in the process of developing a voluntary standard and that can help the rest of the system (regulations, etc.) to follow. If rulemaking occurred prematurely and society is not yet comfortable with EDRs, knee-jerk reactions by the less informed would be a problem (privacy concerns), and it wouldn't be very effective. Voluntary action would result in less of a knee-jerk reaction and the manufacturers would be more comfortable during the implementation.
  • McElroy - A uniform data set is going to be an issue outside of the standards development work. It will have to be elevated to a different level. Policy would establish a minimum uniform data set consisting of data elements, recording time and frequency.

• Follow up question from audience: Why is there interest in standardization?

  • Chidester - Equipping his ~100 investigators to read out all the different configurations is a big issue.
  • Martinez - A small subset of non-proprietary items seems to be of interest for standardizing when looking at the different user groups. This has been evident in the different working groups.

• Follow up question from audience: What is being done with the submissions in the docket for NHTSA's request for comment on EDRs?

  • Chidester - Submissions are being collected and looked at in house, along with the petitions for rulemaking.

• When will EDR data be available to the public?

  • Marsh - OEMs contract with different tool manufacturers to develop tool to be able to download and readout EDRs. Vetronix is one example. Everything that has been done up until now has been completely public.

• How soon will additional items be available?

  • Marsh - That will be determined by the OEMs.

• What is your recommended light vehicle data set (GM vs. Ford delta Vs)?

  • Martinez - Crash pulse will probably be most important.

• Follow up question from audience - Who should make the decision as to what info is supplied? Car manufacturers? Some institution?

  • Martinez - His petition for rulemaking was focused on a standardized content and format that can be downloaded from the vehicle. Different users will have different data needs, but a minimum data set has been identified by several work groups. The medical interest is in being able to get a minimum set of data out of a vehicle immediately. Algorithms in the emergency response community continue to change and the data will help them to develop.

• Follow up question from audience - What is SIS?

  • Martinez - Safety Intelligence Systems (SIS) is partnering with Insurance Services Office (ISO) and IBM to create a repository for EDR data.

• What are the benefits of EDR data to insurance companies? (resolving claims, etc.)

  • Ferguson - IIHS is an independent research organization and cannot speak for the insurance companies. However, insurers seem to be interested in EDRs, although no one is currently looking at output from EDRs after crashes on a routine basis. The Insurance Corporation of British Columbia went through the exercise of interrogating EDRs for crashed vehicles but now has scaled back its efforts. One insurer in the United States is retrofitting a fleet with accelerometers. Also, in Europe, studies suggest that drivers in vehicles with EDRs modify their driving with a resultant drop in crashes.

• Follow up question from the audience - Is there another measurement/parameter that would be more valuable than delta-V?

  • Ferguson - Clearly better information about the crash pulse (including not just change in velocity but the time over which the decelerations are happening). Delta Vs from other directions than longitudinal also would be useful but they are not widely available.
  • Marsh - Mentioned the International Standards Organization (ISO) effort to define a crash pulse.

• What is the percentage of commercial vehicles that have data recorded?

  • Hinkson - Mack began collecting data in 1998 (33,000 trucks per year since then). It is not possible to turn off recording on a Mack chassis, but it possible on other manufacturer's vehicles. At some point, there needs to be some standardization.
  • McGee - A lot of data is there, but, it can be switched off by the driver or trucking company (not ECMs - they are required). Example - In a ~100 vehicle accident in Maryland, the crash datawas only available on one truck. The reason for this being, the data pages had been turned off in the other commercial motor vehicles. For $150 -250 at various truck stops, and truck repair facilities, truck drivers can hire a mechanic to turn off recording (speed limits, etc.), change various settings in the ECM. Regulations are needed to prevent this problem. In terms of the required ECMs, about 12% of operators use the ECMs (EDR type data) to manage their fleets. Most of the fleets do not use password protection, particularly larger fleets because of logistics concerns.

 

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